Mosher Ban - Makes Point

[Mike Nomad]

Below is an EMAIL presented here, with permission, composed by Rob Mosher. I believe the post itself delivers his message quite clearly.


.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family:Verdana } From: robmosher87@hotmail.com
To: cm_sensha@callofduty.com; jolin@treyarch.com; ralph_streport@msn.com; pete@infinityward.com; jason@infinityward.com; tdthies1@msn.com
Subject: Thats exactly what I was trying for...to be banned to make a point.
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:58:20 -0800

My name on your website is RMosher. I was recently Banned from your COD.com site. The point is...you don't want to hear criticism of your game.

It all started with a thread that was started by another member. Then after 13 pages the whole thread was deleted.

Tells me that you guys dont want to hear it or see it. I am the Owner and founder of the Shock'N'Awe Clan. www.ShockNAweClan.Net (http://www.shocknaweclan.net/) We have been around since 1999. We have over a million unique visitors to our site each year. We are the Original Shock N Awe.

I have personally been asked to review Brothers in Arms for Ubisoft in San Francisco. Was personally invited by Rick Giolino from EA to review MOH Pacific Assault, Jason West from Infinity Ward asked me to be among the first to review and play COD4. Our clan had the number one most populated servers in the world for 3 straight years in MOH Spearhead. We have been playing COD since the launch of COD and have helped advertise and promote your games so you can make money and the servers can get populated.

One of my clan members was recently banned from your site. His posts were respectful and insightful, no vulgarities or inappropriate behavior and you guys banned him. TThies was his name....


The main issue is....the Power up Ranking system....Get rid of it or you will lose us and many others. I have the channels to make it happen and in have already spoken many other gaming communities and this whole Rank up Power XP garbage is nothing more than Legalized Cheating. Is it your intention to make people become bored of the game faster? Thereby making them stop playing and going out and buying another title from TreyArch? Answer this question or give me someone who will.

Remember, we are the PC gaming community. We can make or break your game and are responsible for much of the word of mouth, hype and advertising that makes you money by selling games. We can also bring you down...

{Shock'N'Awe}Mack

robmosher87@hotmail.com (robmosher87@hotmail.com)








Stay tuned to this thread for further news and developments concerning this latest incident of consumer abuse by Treyarch/Activision representatives.

[zeroy]

Is it your intention to make people become bored of the game faster? There's your answer. COD Titles are now coming in every year, the fact that you are interested or not doesn't matter anymore. Initial sales, that's what its all about. Financial gain has surpassed the passion for entertaining the masses my dear friends .... :whaa1:

[Mr.Ray]

One of my clan members was recently banned from your site. His posts were respectful and insightful, no vulgarities or inappropriate behavior and you guys banned him. TThies was his name....


Another prime example of bad language and such is fine apparently but tell the truth there and see what happens....


There is too much of this happening now. We know why, of course, but when will corporate step in? Still busy counting the profits?

[Cmac1992]

This is starting to go beyond poor customer service it is now the realms of abysmal

Last week there joking talk of a group of us all burning our cod:WW CD's in protest over at TGN. However we all laughed saying whats the point the have our money. Yesturday however 3 of them have now said they are sick of the game and are going to burn the disc.

Then some brightspark thought of a second server strike like we had in cod2 to see if we could disrupt them in anyway at all. I refuse to instigate something of this nature however any action taken to alert Treyarch of its major short comings would have the support of me and from what I can tell by forum posts the majority of Battle for Europe.

I would like to say one thing however it does seem from a conversation I had with JD last week that although he is able to talk about many things it all seems to be a list of pre-approved subjects he can talk about and on questions he was not allowed to answer he did at one point say he is not permitted to talk about that suggesting his hands are tied because of someone upstairs. it would also seem that he does very little if any moderation on the forums so those acts seem to be done by the usual suspects.

The wave of discontent seems to be spreading over more and more players by the day. How long will it be before this game is blacklisted by the majority of the community and left to rot.


Take the number of players it has online just now compared to other games in this series

Call of Duty 4 = 26401 Players
Call of Duty 2 = 8949 Players
Call of Duty World at War = 4193 Players
Call of Duty: UO = 1719 Players
Call of Duty = 752 Players

Surely this evidence from Game monitors should demonstrate they are doing something wrong. (ok maybe not the most reliable server monitoring)

This however is confirmed still by Xfire's time monitor

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare = 271856 Minutes played today

Call of Duty 2 = 158812 Minutes played today

Call of Duty: World At War = 81743 Minutes played today

Call of Duty & Call of Duty: United Offensive = 27827 Minutes played today


I do realise this has gone off-topic slightly however I will return to my intended point

This game will be dead in a matter of weeks unless Treyarch step up to the plate with some serious improvements

[zeroy]

Interesting post Cmac1992 but the only reply you'll get is that patch 1.2 is coming early 2009,once Treyarch comes back from holidays .... Talking of which,

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4447/grinchtreyarchig0.jpg

[Cmac1992]

I have to say Zeroy I did get more information from JD than I thought however I didn't feel it was anything that exciting

If you do want it I will type it up I did agree not to distribute the emails in their entirity however I am able to reword it to get the message across if you want this then I will quite happily start that just now

[Mike Nomad]

Another relay;


From:xxxxxxxx
To: ralph_streport@msn.com
Subject: Fw: Just got off the phone with Josh Olin...
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:17:15 -0500

From: ROB MOSHER (robmosher87@hotmail.com)
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:53 PM
To: xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Just got off the phone with Josh Olin...


The crux of the conversation is... They are in it to make money and the money to be made is in the Console Market. According to Josh, it is easier to modify and make patches and adjustments for a Console game on the fly than it is for the PC.

He also stated that we need to read the sticky posts on the front page of COD.com to get an idea of whats being done to address the issues. He also stated that the point of doing something about the PU-XP rank up issue is "not a priority thats high on our list" WTF!? I then told him "well it should be as it is the most debated issue in your forums." He said essentially that they may not address it at all due to the fact that people are going to hack their ranks anyways. oh ok so we just give in and let them do it?

This guy is blowin smoke and money is the key. I then told him that EA lost bigtime because money ruled their motives and quality went out the window and they made money just off the title.
robmosher87@hotmail.com (robmosher87@hotmail.com)

Something further to ponder relative to the course of current events.....

[Wizz]

I can sum it all up right now.

They being Treyarch just don't give a rats ass about the PC side. To blow off the Shock N Awe clan like that just proves it. Yes shock n awe is a force to be reckoned with. I remember the convos on the MOH Airborne forums at EA and those guys knows their stuff hands down. For them to do what they have done says volumes at the state of this game.

They are not the only ones who feel this way.

Again its all for a quick easy buck and thats exactly what Treyarch did. Grab the money count it then go off on holidays while this game needs a 1.2 patch bad. If this patch is just a couple of meg then forget the game, stick a fork in it.. its done and I should say very well done cooked wise.

I just wish that this community can go back to the good ol CoD1 and UO days. Those were the days, the good ol days of the joyful past. Now all we have are cheer leading pole smokers who's only initiative is what's in it for themselves. Those very same people will screw you over in a heartbeat.

Should I mention names here? No, I shouldn't have to. By now, we all know who those people are.

[GrymmWolf]

One of my clan members was recently banned from your site. His posts were respectful and insightful, no vulgarities or inappropriate behavior and you guys banned him. TThies was his name....



TThies just replied to a post on callofduty.com so maybe the ban was reversed or lifted? Which either way is a good thing.

[zeroy]

TThies just replied to a post on callofduty.com so maybe the ban was reversed or lifted? Which either way is a good thing.

LOL, seems I am still a threat to Public Safety over there ... my ban was re-enforced recently, it use to be an IP ban now its a permanent Username ban!


Thanks Sparks :wink1:

http://www.zeroy.com/br/other/banned_cod.jpg

[SNAMack]

Well I think it is extremely important to get the mass of communities together on this issue of "Quality Control". Another point to make here and what many in the PC community don't realize is that these guys make the games, some good and some bad. Either way where does most of the marketing come from ? THE PC MARKET. We as clan admins, owners and so on do the most advertising for these games. Word of mouth , through forums, instant messenger and also our websites. We ask for nothing in return but a good clean and finished product. In the good ole days we got a finished product and the patches were done because of a few undiscovered flaws, glitches or hiccups in the game. Now the patches are commonplace. They set a deadline and regardless they release the product unfinished. Case and Point....MOH Pacific Assault, and Airborne. IW in my opinion got it right on with COD4, Great game, clean and fun and polished. Some hiccups but a great game. COD WAW also is a great game but unfinished. EA with Pacific Assault and Airborne did all the marketing and hyped it up like it was the best thing since aspirin. Turns out we actually needed a freakin aspirin to deal with all the issues.

These guys are making money hand over fist for the console market with the PC gamers doing all the marketing! Not to mention, I think they forgot where they come from...Dont they use the PC to manufacture these games and run programs that can only be run on PC to make the games?

Sorry I am long winded but I have several years of frustration in this. Stand by everyone, we are working on something that will require everyone to participate in order for it to work...WE WILL GET THEIR ATTENTION....TRUST ME THIS TIME GUYS... This will be one for the books.

[SNAMack]

We are instituting what is being called the GI or Gamers Initiative...please stand by over the next few days while we get things together.

[SNAMack]

Gamers Initiative is a gamers movement thats being established by PC Gamers to unite against the manufacturers to improve quality of games. As it stands right now the PC communities are taking a backseat to Console gaming. They use the PC to actually manufacture the games, they use us in the community to obtain free advertising by us posting on our websites, word of mouth and conversations through messenger and forums.

In the good old days we would get out of the box a polished and complete game. Patches would come weeks or months later to fix the glitches and exploits that were discovered. Now the game is released by the manufacturers with full knowledge of patches needed. And to this day the need for more and more patches is growing exponentially.

The latest debacle is with COD World at War. With numerous issues ranging from cg_drawFPS to the Power-Up XP (Legalized Cheating) which in my opinion is their way of getting you to tire of the game and go out and buy another new game. Fattening the wallets of Execs.

We are trying to establish a list of the Execs emails and marketers, emails from Activision, TreyArch, and EA as well as the emails of every gaming community, clan, individual, modder or mappers. The more support we get and participation, the more effective this will become.

If you are interested in hearing more of this and would like to be a part of this please email me at robmosher87@hotmail.com

[GrymmWolf]

the Power-Up XP (Legalized Cheating) which in my opinion is their way of getting you to tire of the game

On this I can see your point but think that the issue of the InstaRank (the term PowerRank/PowerUp reminds me of AWE4's PowerRank & I do not want to refer to it as Powerrank or powerrankup :d ) has started to become blown beyond its actual significance.

I can really see only two sides to it ....

"To err is human"
- If someone messed up & forgot to lock those dvars, it was an accident and although the use of those dvars has become sickeningly abused, its not as horrible an issue as say the Redirect or the Tools.

"To forgive is not our policy"
-Intentionally leaving it open; say in an effort to provide more dvars accessable to admins without requiring a mod, and not pausing for a moment to consider fully the possible abuse that could result, is in my opinion a total F-A-I-L.

FAIL is a term I generally never use but is most appropriate to this.

The dvars in question should be locked down in the first patch regardless.

HRGamers will stand by the CCA & look forward to the GI. :Outstanding!:

May I recommend speaking to Brad Wardell of Stardock.com creators of the "Gamer's Bill of Rights" which I have quoted below.



1. Gamers shall have the right to return games that are incompatible or do not function at a reasonable level of performance for a full refund within a reasonable amount of time.

2. Gamers shall have the right that games they purchase shall function as designed without defects that would materially affect the player experience.

3. Gamers shall have the right that games will receive updates that address minor defects as wellas improves game play based on player feedback within reason.

4. Gamers shall have the right to have their games not require a third-party download managerinstalled in order for the game to function.

5. Gamers shall have the right to have their games perform adequately if their hardware meets the posted minimum requirements.

6. Gamers shall have the right not to have any of their games install hidden drivers.

7. Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest version of the games they purchase.

8. Gamers have the right to use their games without being inconvenienced due to copy protectionor digital rights management.

9. Gamers shall have the right to play single player games without having to have an Internetconnection.

10. Gamers shall have the right to sell or transfer the ownership of a physical copy of a game theyown to another person.

[Messiah Complex]

While I'm sympathetic to the Gamer's Initiative, I don't think flooding executive email inboxes with customer complaints is likely to accomplish anything. It seems to me that the whole point of having a "community relations department" is to find a couple of fanboys willing to act as a buffer between irate customers and the real employees, and let them deal with the inevitable fallout. For Activision and IW, that filter (402) was firmly in-place at least as early as Modern Warfare's release, and Treyarch followed suit with World at War. I seriously doubt any person of authority at any of those companies (and just forget about EA) is going to let anyone bypass community relations. They wouldn't have created the filter in the first place if they were willing to have direct contact with dissatisfied buyers.

If you want to grab Activision's and Treyarch's attention, convince enough people with public servers to shut them down until the game is patched to an acceptable state, and then make sure everyone knows why they're having a hell of a time finding a server to play online.

Other than that, Treyarch's next release should be met with a healthy dose of skepticism. If we all run out and buy CoD7 on day one (or even in month one), the current scenario will just play out over and over again.

[Mike Nomad]

Short Sweet and to the point......

A server strike will not work. All it will accomplish is boost console sales.

People had better consider the folk who bought and paid forth Collector's Edition promotion.

Buy the Collector's Edition and get double XP points, a canteen and the FG42.

The Rank Raping Killed the double XP points, the canteen was a phony and the FG42 was the only thing worthwhile.

Taking those thing into consideration coupled with the broken in the box release, the charade with the Editing Tools, the Broken redirect...

I believe there are grounds for a Class Action.

EA just capitulated to a Class Action over DRM & SPORE... Class Actions work.

The end of January will tell all.

[SNAMack]

"I don't think flooding executive email inboxes with customer complaints is likely to accomplish anything. It seems to me that the whole point of having a "community relations department" is to find a couple of fanboys willing to act as a buffer between irate customers and the real employees, and let them deal with the inevitable fallout."

I have to disagree although your point is valid but...

The fanboys cant keep up in the consumer relations dept and are unable to relay all the complaints either. The FanBoys for TreyArch (Josh Olin) and JD2020 both are just smoke blowers. They have scripted answers they give but nothing more. They do more deflecting and or diversion than anything else. Regarding the inevitable fallout....

My point here and what I would like to achieve with the GI is to help prevent and or minimize the Fallout by holding the Manufacturers accountable for an incomplete game. As I stated before, They release games to meet a deadline for the fiscal year, not when the game is polished and complete. We get the scraps of a game in hopes they patch it well enough to satisfy and or pacify the masses. Of course by then half the dev team has moved on and the execs already have our money in their pockets...

Regarding the Class Action, I do believe that a class action will work just fine , but I think to get their attention immediately we need to post in their forums this letter I am writing with fellow authors, we need to post it on the front page of our sites, email the letter to the execs and marketing directors. We need something of an immediate impact as the CA suit will take a very long time for it to settle. Of course by then the fire from us will be gone and then we don't want to deal with it...Then starting all over again with a brand new unfinished game that was made sexy by some Youtube footage...

[Messiah Complex]

Upon reflection, I think there are several arguments against a "server strike", even apart from the practical impossibility of organizing one. Bengal Sniper's point in that respect is well taken. Suggestion withdrawn.

SNAMack said:

The fanboys cant keep up in the consumer relations dept and are unable to relay all the complaints either. The FanBoys for TreyArch (Josh Olin) and JD2020 both are just smoke blowers. They have scripted answers they give but nothing more. They do more deflecting and or diversion than anything else.You're absolutely right. I'd carry it a step further, though: not only are the "salaried employees" at Activision/IW/Treyarch content to hand the customer relations duties off to sycophants, it's apparent that they don't particularly care whether said sycophants are competent to the task. That's exactly why I think the email campaign would be ignored.

bengalsniper said:

I think you mean COD 6 not 7? Not buying their next game would send a signal to get it right but that is a year from now.... No, I meant CoD7. I'd be a little more willing to give IW the benefit of the doubt, as their track record is better than Treyarch's. You hit the nail on the head, though: bad sales would send the message loud and clear. And, although I think the Spore/DRM lawsuit was meritless (the settlement was likely driven by cost-of-litigation considerations), there seems to be a more solid foundation in CoD5's case. There would be a certain poetry to having RGN as the lead plaintiff in a class action, given all the petty bannings on certain other forums.

One point I haven't made that's kind of essential to the conclusion I've drawn here: I'm mostly convinced at this point that patch 1.2 is going to address less than half of the essential issues that Mike has regularly identified on this forum. I keep going back to the sorry state of the mod tools, and the fact that so many things in the game itself that worked in CoD4 are now borked in CoD5. Add the garbage community relations department and Treyarch's obvious hypersensitivity to criticism, and there's no reason to expect a decent level of responsiveness on any front.

[Messiah Complex]

Mike:

Do you have a link to source that reports on an EA/Spore/DRM settlement (I assume that's what you meant by capitulation)? I can't find anything on gameslaw.net, gamepolitics.com or any other news site.

[Cmac1992]

as far as I am aware no settlement had been made as of yet and there are two class action suits going on against EA over spore.

The first one is the game and the second one is for the FREE Creature creator DEMO filed September 22nd and October 14th Respectively

[Mike Nomad]

as far as I am aware no settlement had been made as of yet and there are two class action suits going on against EA over spore.

The first one is the game and the second one is for the FREE Creature creator DEMO filed September 22nd and October 14th Respectively

Its been rumored that the first step in the yet to be disclosed settlements of the CA proceedings against EA is indicated HERE (http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/showthread.php?p=49645#post49645). EA has been hammered by user criticism and is now beginning to positively respond.

Activision needs the very same harsh, in the Court Room, WAKE UP CALL.

[Messiah Complex]

Mike:

Thanks for the link.


Cmac1992:

That's right, and there's an additional DRM suit over the Sims 2: Bon Voyage.


Here's a link to the complaint in the Spore case if anyone is interested: http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/23/Spore.pdf

[Redskull]

I too also agree that flooding executive email inboxes with customer complaints wont make a differance ,neither would another server strike ,besides I dont think you would get any compliance from the admins who changed their servers to power ranks anyway

What I think needs to happen is to let the greater gaming community at large know of the problems

Im always on sites like

http://www.shacknews.com/
http://uk.ign.com/
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/sites/pcgamer/

and there is never any mention of the CoD WW problems ,but so many other games do get reported about

those sites,and many, many more like them, are the guys who need to know whats going on,they are the ones with the bigger voice ,that can ask the questions that we need answers to

posting problems on Treyarch's forum ,or on here ,or any where for that matter will never solve anything

I also think that action ,in what ever course thats taken should start on 1st February ,to give the January 09 dead line a chance

[SNAMack]

I believe it will work. Everyone seems to believe that nothing will work and that the way their system is designed. To lull us into submission.

We get enough people and communities together and in on this and they execute this, then they have no choice but to listen. There is no bigger voice than US...The PC Gamer....We have more ability than you believe. We can advertise, spam, post, publish, broadcast, critique, shut down servers and so much more. We just have to execute a plan...

One is just one customer, 1000 is $50,000 bucks, the more people and communities, the more it hits them in the pocketbooks.

We all send an email to all the chief execs (the list is being compiled now) from the major companies like Activision, Treyarch, EA, send it to the execs, chief marketing depts, publish on our websites front page, post in their forums, youtube, Filefront. gamershell, and numerous other sites, get the media involved...Not sure if a server strike can be done but if possible that would do some damage.

If we dont do this now it will have to be done later, after they have given us more incomplete games in dire need of patches. We can at least try. No Harm in trying. There are a ferw of us working on this, all you would have to do is ten minutes work in Copy and pasting this to the emails, forums and whatever else you volunteer to do. We are doing the planning...Its just a few minutes effort on your part...

Petitions dont work, Crying or whining about it in forums just get spammed over, deleted, or ignored and disrespected by those against it.

This doesn't work I just may call it a day and shut down my gaming community after 10 years and 4 million unique visitors and the PC Gaming will lose just one more group... This is my hobby but I am tired of getting subpar products and smoke blowing.