Quality RO Mappers Discouraged?

[Mike Nomad]

I posted this in another forum trying to support Drecks in his efforts. It appears that certain of the RO "Historically Accurate" ZEALOT FREAKS have discouraged him. That's disgraceful because of all the maps we've seen, Drecks' maps have been among the very best in minutia detail attention. Every detail is painstakingly made perfect in his maps. I guess to the non-mappers its not so evident and to certain of the other mappers or wanna-be mappers it frosts their balls that they cannot achieve such levels of quality.

From the other forum:


I will fix the issues for this map but any plans for another map for this game are deep deep in my frig.

Don't let those knuckleheads bother you. You have to realize you frosted their balls with the name of the map. Alone THAT to me, was PRECIOUS! Then when people began to support you and mock the "historically accurate" freaks, they went nuts... you did the right things and we all support you in your endeavors. You have more support than you know.

As you can see, Drecks sounds discouraged... he should not be. Because He and Slyk have "shown the way" successful maps in RO should be done. All they've gotten back from the ungrateful scumbags is destructive criticism instead of constructive criticism. This is so evident in missives posted by jerk kids wanting the genuine challenges built into the maps removed or, the dimwits that cannot get off the "Favor the Russians or Favor the Germans" Nationalistic Bullcrap.

Take the time people, to look over the maps made by Drecks and Slyk carefully... take special note of the fine detail work and ingenious planning of the gameplay and flow of the maps. Few can equal these maps.

Ask around among players... Lazur, Berezina and Wateverovko are fast becoming the MOST POPULAR and MOST REQUESTED MAPS in RO. Why? Because they kick the crap out of most all the other maps. Take a good look at who is busting Drecks and Slyk's balls... a few old time (from the mod days) RO historically accurate zealot players and a handful of mappers who've been around for a while!! While its only a few of each type, it only takes a few rotten apples to spoil the barrel.

Only lately and from relatively new mappers are promising high quality maps beginning to appear. They must be encouraged and helped along!

The older mappers seem to be leaning on the echos of yesterday's applause. There is nothing as dead as the echos of yesterday's applause. Remake of old RO maps after remake after remake and they all suck.

The few old time players from the the mod days who act like sour grapes are part of the exclusive "clique" that think they are the RO elite... they're right!! The elite RO meatheads!! The few mappers who act like "egomaniacal punks" are those who are simply put, either insanely jealous and/or simply cannot cope.

There, I said it. I will never mince words. The BS has to stop or the selfish, self serving idiots who want to keep the RO userbase SMALL are going to seriously hurt the growth of RO and the prosperity of Tripwire. They may mean well, but they are hurting RO and Tripwire.

Drecks and Slyk must be thanked for providing superb, high quality maps!! Not jerked around by dimwits.

[Wizz]

The few old time players from the the mod days who act like sour grapes are part of the exclusive "clique" that thinks they are the RO elite... they're right!! The elite RO meatheads!! The few mappers who act like "punks" are those who are, simply put, insanely jealous and/or simply cannot cope.

There, I said it. I will never mince words. The BS has to stop or the selfish self serving idiots who want to keep the RO userbase SMALL are going to seriously hurt the growth of RO and the prosperity of Tripwire. They may mean well, but they are hurting RO and Tripwire.


This sounds exactly like the CoD community in the same way of thinking that their crap don't stink. What I say is ****'em

Edit:

It wouldn't be a out of context to say that I wouldn't put the cod community past sabotaging them. What I am saying I bet ya that the cod community wouldn't mind stirring the pot like this to discredit a great game like RO.

[Mike Nomad]

This sounds exactly like the CoD community in the same way of thinking that their crap don't stink. What I say is ****'em

Edit:

It wouldn't be a out of context to say that I wouldn't put the cod community past sabotaging them. What I am saying I bet ya that the cod community wouldn't mind stirring the pot like this to discredit a great game like RO.

Anything is possible. Many old Codders are part of the RO community and I'm certain they wouldn't sit still for such shenanigans.

I honestly get the impression its the long-time RO players who were part of the MOD when it was only a mod and really have never "let-go". They want things "the way they were" when they were the heros to the Dev's and the Devs fussed and fawned all over them to keep support levels by the users high.

The developers, Tripwire, have of course moved on to bigger and better things... namely ROOST... Red Orchestra Eastern Front 41-45. Its highly successful and has attracted many, many new users. Most of whom are looked upon with scorn by the RO Mod player old timers. This is sad because its complicated by the Nationalistic nonsense drummed up by many.

I can only wonder when the RO userbase will wake up. When RO is hammered and too late? When Tripwire finally says "F" this and moves in the same directions as IW and many other developer groups did that grew sick and tired of user Bullcrap? Or will the RO userbase wake up and get along as one big family of users while helping RO grow and Tripwire prosper?

Sadly, at this point there seems to be a larger picture of history repeating itself. Are we destined to witness high quality mappers and modders walk away again? I can only hope this missive serves as an early warning.

[ExoCet]

I feel for Drecks, he and Slyk have inspired me to improve my development of maps and have brought alot of very good maps to the RO Community.

Players have no-right to complain or demand about things They want to see in a map. (suggestions are always welcomed).

But to bring a mapper down by ranting on about historical events that are not reflected in certain maps. Is a big issue for the RO Community

As for the Dev's ... well they're like gods, and should be treated as such.

I think its about time the historical know-it-alls make there own maps. These maps would be very accurate in terms of buildings/Weapons/time of year and exactly what occurred in WW2.

This would be The perfect WW2 map, but Not the perfect RO MAP the Germans lost the war, show me one gamer who would knowingly join the losing team before the game even started.

All the clan matches and leagues would be pointless

*throws in 2 cents.*

[Mike Nomad]

ExoCet, Very well said........!! Except for maybe the GoD thing and Devs... :)

[TruSlaughter]

I feel for Drecks, he and Slyk have inspired me to improve my development of maps and have brought alot of very good maps to the RO Community.

Players have no-right to complain or demand about things They want to see in a map. (suggestions are always welcomed).

But to bring a mapper down by ranting on about historical events that are not reflected in certain maps. Is a big issue for the RO Community

As for the Dev's ... well they're like gods, and should be treated as such.

I think its about time the historical know-it-alls make there own maps. These maps would be very accurate in terms of buildings/Weapons/time of year and exactly what occurred in WW2.

This would be The perfect WW2 map, but Not the perfect RO MAP the Germans lost the war, show me one gamer who would knowingly join the losing team before the game even started.

All the clan matches and leagues would be pointless

*throws in 2 cents.* i agree with your points. @drecks,slyk,exocet,killer9999 and anyone else who puts in a lot of hard work to produce an excellent map DO NOT let those idiots stiffle your creativity,talent or passion to create maps for RO, without your efforts RO will never reach it's full potential. @the historical fanatics either make your own map or go read your history books, better yet create your historically accurate maps and put them up against some from the above artists and i'll guarantee you your maps lose hands down. the h.a. nuts fail to realize that these customs immerse you into the game far deeper and more intensely than any history lesson ever could! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK GUYS :bravo:

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I for one appreciate all the great maps these guys have done. Personally, I don't even want to discourage those mappers who have put out mediocre maps, as they have to start somewhere and are probably making a map they may want to play. First or second map may not amount to much, but after practice....

As has been said before, we should encourage all those who take up the task to make maps. Make useful suggestions, point out things that can be improved in a constructive manner (and don't say it sucks....), and if a person IS making a historical map, then offer the historical comments. If not making a historical map, don't drag them down by trying to have them make the historical map you should be making.

Keep up the great work guys. It really is appreciated more than you may know.... :d

[dickybird]

I'm no mapper but as a rule if I base a 3D scene on an event or location thats just it its a basis. If I don't like the style windows on a building I'll change them to something i like something that fits in better. I hate PVC windows on old buildings. An early Victorian pub where i live (it still has the old stable building but as a cover for out door seating) has recently had the windows changed to PVC it looks horrible. So if i get round to modeling it i wont do the PVC windows but the old stone window frames because they suit the building.

The same can be said for a map. When it comes to gameplay Slyk, Drecks and many other mappers are very talented at getting the gameplay right on a map. Bitching at them for making a map with good gameplay is like changing the camber on a lotus. It ****s the whole dynamic up. And lets face it Lotus can make cars that out maneuver the British (improved) version of the Apache Longbow so pissing around with them is like painting a tash on the Mona Lisa.

[Mike Nomad]

Hahahahahah.......... for both Dicky and Moe; Very well said!

[Drecks]

Well thanks for the kind words, didn't really ment it this way when i talked to Mike, but now a week later the facts are simple.

The Wateverovko 2th beta is out for almost a week now. In this week i have been able to play the map only once. Since then i haven't seen it anymore except for Mike's server and AHZ which is empty during my time.

This could mean a couple of things,

1 - It sucks.
2 - It's unknown .
3 - It's ignored due all the name blablabla.
4 - Cause my comment on Historical accuracy they think it has UFO's
5 - People are so impressed they quit gaming :d :d :d

The amount of feedback recieved is almost none. A few people reacted
but except for guys like Moe and Drewdog which gave usefull feedback, i didn't recieve other info.

So the job is to release the final very soon and see what happens.........

p.s.

Please don't post around trying to support the map. Let me do it my way...

Thanks Drecks

[dickybird]

Butch has it on his server (second round just starting when i started typing). C3ll (Dirty rats clan) only have Beta1.

I've only heard a few complaints all about the size of the map mainly from people that like inf only. Its wicked Drecks. Theres one bug that enables you to get on the CPs roof ask true about getting up there (he likes killing me from that roof).

[Mike Nomad]

You never cease to amaze me... :d


That's a good thing. Your map work is by far, among the best there is. There is no question about that.

You must appreciate that you told the "sacred cows" to FOAD. That's OK by me and soon they'll come around and understand they do not control the world of RO, you or the rest of the free thinking individuals involved in RO.

Your maps are very much enjoyed... we see it in the USA but the time differences between the Continents are proving to be a greater barrier than most perceive. Your maps are doing very well "over here" during our prime times.:wink1:

[Norminator]

I've only read the first and last post, so bare with me if I miss the point completely.

The one thing that always worried me with the RO community was the few "l33ts" that had been in there since mod version such and such. Most of them (not all!) seemed to want to be "special" or something, like the newer guys (or their opinion) didn't matter as much as they do.

Ofcourse I could be wrong, 'cause I haven't been active there at all lately.

and 5 thumbs up for Drecks. if it's true that you've (already) made some of the best maps for RO then I'm very impressed at the time it took you to adapt to a new engine. Wish I had your motivation to do such things :)

[ExoCet]

I totally Agree with you Drecks.

It seems the only decent feedback is coming from Mikes and AHZ's servers.
I have now had 2 maps released and without the help of the good people here and at AHZ, I would not have a clue if they were any bugs in them or any other things that help a mapper make better maps.

To me the RO community seem to thrive on this Historical nonsense, if you look at the feedback posted for nearly all maps with historical links, they far outweigh the posts received by any other map created.

I would love to do a Kharkov map next, but I don't think that will be made, I could not stand all the asshats Saying this was not correct and that building was not quite in the right spot.

Anyway I will do what I want, how I want and if they don't like it stuff em. maybe Mike will use them lol.

All I can say is wait and see the dumb asses will soon be using stuff out of all our maps before long. when they realize we are not making them anymore. Then we will see one or 2 new maps every 3-4 months instead of the regular flow we have now.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Well, on a given day/night with all occuppied servers showing, stock maps still dominate by far in which maps are played.

Now that is fine and all, but on many occasions I will jump in the browser and (for example) see about 35 to 50 occuppied servers, and 10 -12 of them are running ARAD or some version of it or about 25% of the servers could be said to be running ARAD. Nothing against ARAD, but 20-25% of the servers running it? Ugh... :confused: Another 20 to 25 will be running other stock maps. That leaves few occuppied servers running custom maps to choose from.

Now I say occuppied because on many occasions, to jump into an unoccuppied server is pot luck. Sometimes other players will join, sometimes you will sit there for 20 minutes before giving up with no-one joining (weekends are better at getting people to join for obvious reasons).

Guess I would just like to see more of the players choosing to play on servers running custom maps or a combination of custom/stock....

[Mike Nomad]

I totally Agree with you Drecks.

Anyway I will do what I want, how I want and if they don't like it stuffem. Maybe Mike will use them lol.


You know both Yours and Drecks' maps will be running on our server. As for the history freaks... ignore them! There always will be elitist asshats in every platform. They'll have their following because there are more lemmings than there are free thinkers and leaders.

Not surprisingly, even the lemmings wake up and go their own way sooner or later.

Both of you must not become discouraged by the lack of response or activity... consider the season, the time of day and the day itself. I am beginning to see heavy trafficked weekends and light action weekdays.

Let's just see where it all leads. In the meantime, keep up the great work, make the fools more jealous than they are now. Make the players overjoyed with the highly playable, solid, high quality maps y'all are becoming famous for.

[ExoCet]

I have just replied to Moe on his suggestions on the RO forums, this is what I posted.

"Thanks Moe.

Will take your suggestions onboard and see what I can do.
Feedback is getting increasingly harder to come across in this forum.

Seems like everyone is more concerned with making new versions of Arad and the community seems to give that alot of coverage.

The mappers NEED FEEDBACK ON THEIR CREATIONS, or how can they make things better. But all we seem to get is Crap about the name not being correct or this is not Historically Accurate.

I love RO and I love making maps for it, But without feedback and people actually playing the new custom maps. Some of us are getting little or no response and are getting discouraged by it."

Very little or no feedback from anyone over there at present.

[Mike Nomad]

I have just replied to Moe on his suggestions on the RO forums, this is what I posted.

"Thanks Moe.

Will take your suggestions on board and see what I can do.
Feedback is getting increasingly harder to come across in this forum.

Seems like everyone is more concerned with making new versions of Arad and the community seems to give that alot of coverage.

The mappers NEED FEEDBACK ON THEIR CREATIONS, or how can they make things better. But all we seem to get is Crap about the name not being correct or this is not Historically Accurate.

I love RO and I love making maps for it, But without feedback and people actually playing the new custom maps. Some of us are getting little or no response and are getting discouraged by it."

Very little or no feedback from anyone over there at present.

I went to the RO forums and read the thread.... Hobo saying that you need to rely on "Iron Crescendo" really pissed me off. That elitist crap is going to be the ruin of RO before its all over. Obviously, they are going to recruit new members anyway they can. Its BS. Since when does an entire fps (RO) platform depend on a single clan? That's ridiculous.

Yesterday's tests on both the RGN and AHGN Servers proved a great deal. We have better than four hours of Wateverovko and StadtAngriff testing behind us from yesterday alone. In total, well over 20 hours per map. I might add that many of Moe's suggestions are excellent.

In the future, we'll coordinate the testing times so that the two major test sites, (RGN & AHGN), that genuinely work at running and testing these maps extensively will not have conflicting schedules.


Further;

ExoCet, please remember that you, like Drecks and Slyk... are the new guys... the guys that embarrassed the "old guard", the clique if I may, of user/player/mappers who thought they had a lock on the whole ball of wax. The maps you folks have produced have shown most of the mediocre custom maps the back door on many servers. That happening shook many of the elitist history zealots up and shocked them into the real world.

All of you have proven yourselves and have superb maps out there that are of high graphic quality and extremely playable. But you must remember, they do not conform to their Bullcrap "geographically historically accurate" premise. As a result, the elitist asshats are not going to help in any way other than gross criticism or utter silence.

You must all take it in your stride..there are elitist cliques everywhere. We've been there since your first map (from before RO) and have had your goodies in rotation since. Both in CoD and RO. We've never been disappointed by any of your maps.

I submit that they have stubbed their toes and know of no graceful way out of the embarrassing position they've placed themselves in. Give it time, they'll come around.

In the mean time... keep up the good work. :wink1:

[=GG= Mr Moe]

......Seems like everyone is more concerned with making new versions of Arad and the community seems to give that alot of coverage......


I am glad I am not the only one noticing that!

---------------------------------------------

Just glad you are mapping. It seems a very playable map. Now if I can only start mapping the little diddy I have mulling around in my mind....

[Mike Nomad]

I am glad I am not the only one noticing that!

---------------------------------------------

Just glad you are mapping. It seems a very playable map. Now if I can only start mapping the little diddy I have mulling around in my mind....

Moe, you are 100% correct.... The new mappers are ignored.

[ExoCet]

Thanks for the words of confidence Mike and Moe.
Thanks to you and AHZ, I will keep creating things I think would make good maps.
With help from people like you encouraging me and other new mappers, we should be able to get some really good maps coming along very soon.

BTW I have joined that new mod, we are making a Normandy mod for RO.
I have started work on the first map, while finishing Stadtangriff.

We are doing a realistic Dog green Sector of Omaha Beach as our first map.
Website should be up very soon, I will keep you posted here on our progress as much as I can.

I would love it if Drecks and Slyk could then make some of those excellent maps they did for UO. Ardennes1944, GunAssault. Were my 2 favorite maps in UO.

[Mike Nomad]

Thanks for the words of confidence Mike and Moe.
Thanks to you and AHZ, I will keep creating things I think would make good maps.
With help from people like you encouraging me and other new mappers, we should be able to get some really good maps coming along very soon.

BTW I have joined that new mod, we are making a Normandy mod for RO.
I have started work on the first map, while finishing Stadtangriff.

We are doing a realistic Dog green Sector of Omaha Beach as our first map.
Website should be up very soon, I will keep you posted here on our progress as much as I can.

I would love it if Drecks and Slyk could then make some of those excellent maps they did for UO. Ardennes1944, GunAssault. Were my 2 favorite maps in UO.

Western Europe in RO that .... sounds marvelous. Let that group know that if there is anything we here at RGN can do that is within our means, we'll be happy to help.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

That is one of the things about RO. Right now we have the Eastern Front, but you can already see the expansion possiblities that teams are already working on....new nationalities, new theatres of battle, new weapons and vehicles, not to mention new maps, it is all just great. If we care anything about the game and don't think of it as some sort of FAD (boy, doesn't that sound dated), we should all try to give constructive criticism where we can.

[Mike Nomad]

The operative word being constructive..... not destructive.

As we are seeing elsewhere. Not for anything.... but I believe that RGN and AHGN does a helluva job finding the bumps and knots in these new maps nad helping the authors smooth them all out. But there are those who see "fit" to tell us all about how they are superior in helping to find bugs. Sad.... really sad elitist crap.