Historical Accuracy in RO Maps

[Mike Nomad]

Not dissing Berezina, cause it is an extremely fantastic map, but it is far from historically correct and real. Perhaps it gives the impression of a battlefield that is more in the imerission factor then a historically correct map.

But we do hope to combine the elements that make that a success. But your always going to get one or two maps that blow everyone away but putting pressure on other mappers to be at that standard or produce similar stuff will not encourage anyone, so I suggest all the fan boys not compare maps, otherwise you will loose all map makers. That would be a huge dis-service for the community.

FAN BOYS????????

Labeling those who offer constructive information is not typically the proper footing with which to launch a new and very ambitious endeavor. Slyk, Lex, Drecks and the rest of the AHZ crew.. have shown their excellent capabilities and solid results. Lazur and Berezina are superb Maps that have elevated the expectations of all RO enthusiasts. In fact, without a doubt it gives all RO mappers a set of positive goals to pursue. Goals that can only enhance and enrich the RO experience for everyone.

Rightfully so too. Berezina is, like Lazur, simply gorgeous. Berezina is only Beta 2 and its one of the most popular maps out there. Attention should be paid to that fact. Bringing that out does not make anyone a "Fan Boy" (that is such an insulting term) or anything else that can possibly be construed as abrasive and/or demeaning. Besides, we ALL had enough of that kind of destructive garbage mouthing with the last, now dying, arena many current RO players were heavily involved in.

Vivid, I read your proposal and said to myself... Self; "This is a neat concept. I'd love to see it work."

I dare say, its best to keep all relations with the admins, users, fellow mappers and potential team members in a totally positive perspective. I see nothing that could stop or hamper your proposal more than inadvertently starting a negative rivalry between mapping factions on the RO platform.

Your proposal is excellent and I will support you, as I have and do with RO-Kuzernki, along with your potential group in any way I possibly can. All I ask is that respect be one of the key factors in every facet of the RO arena.

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NOTE: I replied to Vivid in the RO forums because the term "Fan Boy" brought back ugly memories of the last FPS platform. I'm certain he was unaware of the extreme sensitivity we have due to the "Night of the Long Knives". In fact, they're still busy berating us for having spoken the truth from day one.
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Now then, about historical accuracy... it only goes so far then, unfortunately, you wind up with predictable outcomes in maps and of course, side favoritism built into the maps in order to maintain the "historical accuracy". That is the major drawback of being overly historically accurate. After all, how accurate would a map be if Stalingrad and Moscow fell to the German Juggernaut or if Poland repelled the German Invasion?

So, the bottom line now becomes; "Historically Accurate to a large degree". The degree itself being the height of entertainment factors developed in the map and its level of true playability. There absolutely must be a compromise. Else, the map becomes a lamer. Taking "historical accuracy" to the extreme will eventually prove to be self-defeating. Allowing creative license without permitting "fantasy-land" settings will ultimately prove to be the successful formula.

Speaking of lame maps.. know of any you would call lame? In need of serious help or a trip to the bin? Let us know!

[=GG= Mr Moe]

It is nice to see historical accuracy in a map.

Is it necessary? No. First of all, someone else is creating the map and they have the right to make their map, their vision. Just as the general community can like or dislike the finished product, for whatever their own reasons are.

It really does bug me to see someone nitpick a map someone else created, because it is not 100% historically accurate. This of course does not count for feedback, which is often asked for by the mappers during the map's beta run.

So, simply put for me, a historically accurate map is nice. So is a well designed map that gives the general feel for a certain battle(s) or time period. Your examples above MIKE are a few I am thinking of. That is not to say other maps are not good, in fact some are quite creative and I do enjoy them. But it is the map's design that does it. Can you use tactics, are the objectives laid out in some sort of reasonable manner, etc etc. It also helps if you can think that somewhere, the map or battle actually existed in some form, but it is not necessary.

[TruSlaughter]

It is nice to see historical accuracy in a map.

Is it necessary? No. First of all, someone else is creating the map and they have the right to make their map, their vision. Just as the general community can like or dislike the finished product, for whatever their own reasons are.

It really does bug me to see someone nitpick a map someone else created, because it is not 100% historically accurate. This of course does not count for feedback, which is often asked for by the mappers during the map's beta run.

So, simply put for me, a historically accurate map is nice. So is a well designed map that gives the general feel for a certain battle(s) or time period. Your examples above MIKE are a few I am thinking of. That is not to say other maps are not good, in fact some are quite creative and I do enjoy them. But it is the map's design that does it. Can you use tactics, are the objectives laid out in some sort of reasonable manner, etc etc. It also helps if you can think that somewhere, the map or battle actually existed in some form, but it is not necessary. i totally agree . those that want total accuracy should eliminate respawn so as to be totally accurate :) people get so immersed/obsessed they sometimes forget its still only a game. a fantastic one at that.

[Mike Nomad]

i totally agree . those that want total accuracy should eliminate respawn so as to be totally accurate :) people get so immersed/obsessed they sometimes forget its still only a game. a fantastic one at that.

I guarantee, if ever the spawn feature was removed to support total realism and historical accuracy, the bellyaching would be heard 'round the world.

[Heinz]

I am a historical accuracy NUT, and I find RO-Berezina to be flawless frankly. VIVID is talking out his ass, obviously jealous of the attention that Berezina and the likes of Orel/BDJ are getting.

let's see how his map does. :B . I refrained from jumping in to his thread, inasmuch as I would have had only nasty things to say to a person with a self-centered agenda like that.

that's about as nice as I can put it.

[Mike Nomad]

I am a historical accuracy NUT, and I find RO-Berezina to be flawless frankly. VIVID is talking out his ass, obviously jealous of the attention that Berezina and the likes of Orel/BDJ are getting.

let's see how his map does. :B . I refrained from jumping in to his thread, inasmuch as I would have had only nasty things to say to a person with a self-centered agenda like that.

that's about as nice as I can put it.

BINGO!

You get the brass ring for saying it like it is. I've seen a number of the other mappers run their mouths either directly or through straw men nit picking and criticizing Berezina to no end. The same was happening with Lazur until Drecks told them in so many words to STFU. That is exactly what has to happen by Slyk.

Those others are so insanely jealous of the AHZ crew's work that they'll apparently resort to most anything to discredit AHZ's work. Little do they realize they and their shabby efforts are easily and completely seen through.

Truthfully speaking, they have a right to be worried because in comparison, the majority of the maps offered by the nit picking fools cannot hold a candle to the AHZ maps.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

It's nice to make comments on a map and make suggestions as to what may make it more historically accurate, especially if that is what the mapper is going for. But I do say, I see the same crew being more and more vocal about strict adherance to accuracy, be it in a map, or the way your thumb looks when it chambers a new round (you know what I mean).

To the well meaning ones who are only commenting on it, fine, thanks, that is what is needed.

----- rant follows ----

To the rest who INSIST Tripwire and other mappers fix these "gross anomolies"----STFU !!! There is going to be a point where you are going to insist on things being soooo accurate, you are going to turn away players, slow down progress and updates from Tripwire with pointless visual accuracies or physics accuracies that apply almost never, and maps will take ten times as long to come out, which will turn away more players for lack of public support. If you don't map yourself, stop insisting mappers make things absolutely perfect...if you think it should be done a certain way, DO IT YOURSELF. If you already map, just leave it as a suggestion then DO IT YOURSELF IN YOUR OWN MAPS.

While I do believe that Tripwire intended the game to be realistic in many ways, it still has to remain playable considering the game engine it was designed with, and within reason of the average computer specs out there. I am sure they are not all sitting around their computers looking at ways to improve every tiny little inaccuracy, they have other projects they are surely working on. I can honestly picture them looking at some of the suggestions, no DEMANDS, and sometimes just saying to themselves "Enough! STFU Already!"

[TruSlaughter]

It's nice to make comments on a map and make suggestions as to what may make it more historically accurate, especially if that is what the mapper is going for. But I do say, I see the same crew being more and more vocal about strict adherance to accuracy, be it in a map, or the way your thumb looks when it chambers a new round (you know what I mean).

To the well meaning ones who are only commenting on it, fine, thanks, that is what is needed.

----- rant follows ----

To the rest who INSIST Tripwire and other mappers fix these "gross anomolies"----STFU !!! There is going to be a point where you are going to insist on things being soooo accurate, you are going to turn away players, slow down progress and updates from Tripwire with pointless visual accuracies or physics accuracies that apply almost never, and maps will take ten times as long to come out, which will turn away more players for lack of public support. If you don't map yourself, stop insisting mappers make things absolutely perfect...if you think it should be done a certain way, DO IT YOURSELF. If you already map, just leave it as a suggestion then DO IT YOURSELF IN YOUR OWN MAPS.

While I do believe that Tripwire intended the game to be realistic in many ways, it still has to remain playable considering the game engine it was designed with, and within reason of the average computer specs out there. I am sure they are not all sitting around their computers looking at ways to improve every tiny little inaccuracy, they have other projects they are surely working on. I can honestly picture them looking at some of the suggestions, no DEMANDS, and sometimes just saying to themselves "Enough! STFU Already!" well put moe:bravo:

[ExoCet]

Completely agree with all that has been said here.
I class myself as a mapper now and think it down right rude and arrogant for someone to say that mappers should make maps more historically accurate.

AHZ crew have inspired me to make maps that look and feel right. I also think that Slyk and Drecks make maps that are as accurate as you need a game map to be.

I will continue mapping for RO, BUT will continue doing it MY WAY and I hope Drecks and Slyk continue doing it their way. they have a winning formula and I am hopeful that I may one day reach their standard of making Battlefields not MAPS.

To everyone that continues to shout for Historical Accuracy STFU and give the maps and makers the credit they deserve, for with out them you will soon be looking for a new game and new mappers.

Point out errors and suggest things that may improve the map, but stop demanding that this be altered because it is not accurate enough for you.

[Mike Nomad]

ExoCet..... :bravo:



No doubt that the fanatics have carried the BS too far.