View Full Version : RO-Ponyri Beta 2
05-17-2007, 06:46 PM
Beta 2 Change Log:
- Ponyri Station completely rebuilt
- Increased Russian reinforcements from 200 to 300
- Improved spawn protection
- Added more cover at Russians spawns
- Added more cover for the Russians to the school, station and tractor depot
- Extended the capzones at the hill and tractor depot
- Cut down half tracks to 1 at each spawn
- PzIV F1 limited to 5 respawns
- Minor visual tweaks
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4184/s1ta7.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s1ta7.jpg)http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3564/s2ly8.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s2ly8.jpg)
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4400/s3bd1.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s3bd1.jpg)http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4594/s4ra3.th.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s4ra3.jpg)
05-20-2007, 10:46 AM
I have but one question........
This is it??? This map is supposed to represent the battle for Ponyri and Ponyri Station?
READ THIS (http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/showthread.php?p=7755#post7755) account of the battle and then tell me this map is historically accurate.
It appears that historical accuracy is only important when it suits the aims of the nit-pickers and mappers.
"Let the players be Damned?!?"
It would be nice to see accurate loadouts and the genuine battle scenario, Not a microcosm of a postage stamp of Ponyri.
All this map does is mock Tankers and give another Tank Battle scenario to infantry only enthusiasts. This sort of nonsense will not prove to be of any benefit to expanding and enhancing the popularity and market penetration of RO.
I fully understand and acknowledge that this is only beta 2 but its seems the map's scenario is off on the wrong foot right from the get go. The ambiance and architecture is dandy... but the gameplay and balance are not there yet.
05-20-2007, 12:25 PM
I believe this was based on a COD version. I am seeing more mappers look at COD layouts and "remaking" them for RO. As Nestor pointed out to a mapper in one thread on RO recently "don't use COD as a base for realism."
Edit: Actual historic maps were posted on the thread under level design. He said he didn't need them. I guess the building were more from COD than layout.
=GG= Mr Moe
05-21-2007, 07:05 AM
This map doesn't look anything like the COD version, and I am sad to say, the COD version is much better (one of the better stock maps if you will).
I am all for a battle based, even if loosely, on Ponyri, but this map looks like some objectives thrown together in a semi-linear pattern. I am at a loss on the RO forums where to suggest changing the map without redoing the entire thing. It seems way too small, lacks a surprising amount of detail on the flanks of the map etc, the Tractor depot is extremely small, etc etc...
Now maybe he isn't going for the larger grand battle, which is fine. But the layout of the map just doesn't seem right somehow for even a smaller map that happens to have the name of Ponyri. The map is still salvagable, but really needs more work to be convincing.
I am not even going to go into the play balance at the moment...
05-21-2007, 07:40 AM
Moe, you are 100% correct. This map looks nothing like and plays nowhere near as well as the Ponyri Map in CoDUO. In fact, right now, this map needs a great deal of work... it needs re-thinking and a far more accurate layout, loadout and objective battle plan. We played this map yesterday with 20 some odd guys for well over two hours and frankly, the loadout is sad. The Russian artillery was ferocious but its their only weapon. Where the hell are the Russian tanks? The Russian weapons used at Ponyri? Even the German loadout was comical if not tragic. Very Disappointing.
Just played this map, and I must say that this map does not do the original any justice at all!
You should really consider renaming it cos it is not Ponyri!!
The russians get stuck with the ppsh41 which is a total abomination!! :mad: If the gun actually worked then the Ruskies would have half a chance holding the germans back!
And whats with the panzer???
Needs alot of work!
Sometimes an honest eval can look and sound cruel... .but its really meant to help.
Keep in mind this isn't a bloody port of the mod map.
This is what I think I will do for beta 3
- Move all the Russian spawns closer to the objectives or German spawns back, either way works.
- Temporary spawn at the first objective
- Make the village bigger
- Remove the tank and add a few more half tracks
Don't use it then.
A short excerpt from the historical account of the battle for Ponyri, Ponyri Station and the hill..... Depicting the weapons and equipment for both sides.
"......The 18th Panzer Division contained 72 more conventional vehicles including 5 Pz II, 10 Pz III kz, 20 Pz III 75, 5 Pz IV kz, and 3 Pz Bef Cmd, and also the 101st Panzer Grenadier Regiment. 10th Panzer Grenadier Division had an exceptionally powerful artillery complement: seven artillery battalions, a Nebelwerfer regiment, a heavy mortar battalion and an assault gun battalion.
The Soviet units in this sector were from 29th Rifle Corps of the 13th Army. The front line units were the 15th and 81st Rifle Divisions. Behind them was the 307th Rifle Division - the unit primarily responsible for the defense of the Ponyri. In support of the 307th, the Russians massed the largest concentration of artillery ever allocated to a single infantry division. Additionally, everything the Soviets could muster was poured into the fight. The Germans encountered multiple interconnected trench lines, entire companies of dug-in tanks, battery after battery of anti-tank guns, tank hunting units with their anti-tank rifles and Molotov cocktails, and a constant stream of airstrikes from IL2 and Yak ground attack aircraft."
Whatever happened to the Historical Accuracy we've been having force fed to us for almost two and half years? All of a sudden its thrown to the wind? This map is more like a depiction of an imagined battle and then NAMED Ponyri.
This Ponyri map is B.A.D. - [B]roken [A]s [D]esigned. Time to re-think what this map is truly all about.
Ponyri was not an infantry only battle with a few token vehicles, it was a:
TRUE, COMBINED ARMS BATTLE!!
05-21-2007, 09:06 AM
Played the map most of the afternoon and early evening yesterday, on a near full server and only a few players, and the Russians were beat cold each and every time! I do not understand the cap zones given the fact that on several occasions I was either still in the station, tractor depot, or the school house as a Russian and the Germans were able to secure and cap the objective! I may be wrong but I remember the stock Baksan Valley and similar stock RO maps where I believe until an objective was totally clear of enemy forces you could not cap (been awhile since I played them)?
Also there is relatively little cover behind the Station once the Russians leave the their spawn and crest the hill. A German or two in or near the train station were able to "rape" us as we came out of the spawn area making it all but impossible to recap! You either were gunned down by the troops in the station or killed in a minefield trying to flank. Despite this the battles were fierce and fun at times and with some more work I think this could be a fun infantry map, but as far as combined arms it may be a lot harder to rework imo.
05-21-2007, 09:07 AM
Basicly Soviet infantry should have 1 squad leader 3 smg troopers 2 PTRD and 2 sappers the rest should be tankers.
There should be alot of static vehicles even if the mapper wants to show the pure amount of vehicles invloved but only having a limited number playable then there should be alot of static mesh vehicles (both burnt out and undamaged).
Objective wise id have some destroyables (tank traps and tanks in fixed positions)
Personally id do this map in two parts 1 more tanks than infantry around the towns outer limits with alot more open gound for tank play and the other more infantry than tanks (to show the amount of vehicles destroyed and the the street fighting going on in the town.
05-21-2007, 09:27 AM
I think this could be a fun infantry map, but as far as combined arms it may be a lot harder to rework imo.
Ponyri was not an "Infantry Only" battle. :confused:
If one chooses to make a map of Ponyri, then make it right or call it something else.... misleading names on maps will chase players quicker than anything else.
05-21-2007, 10:41 AM
I think the layout (size of playable area, objectives, distance between objectives, positions of objectives) is more of an infantry map the way it is. For this to be a true CA map there needs to be distances between objs, a real village (kinda like a mini Gorlitz fight among some small village houses) and more tanks and equipment. This would take reworking the entire map. Going with infantry only is unfortunate for what could have been an epic historical battle, but is a quick fix for the balancing issues on the map.
05-24-2007, 08:32 AM
Then it should not be called Ponyri... where the hell are the historically accurate fanatics now?
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