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View Full Version : OREL MAPS - The Best IS?


Mike Nomad
05-17-2007, 11:12 AM
Note: The Poll is multiple-choice. You can vote for more than one version.

So, you think you know from Orel eh? For your added pleasure, we will be running Armored Beasts V2.065 with the up to date tank factory.

Please remember to use the R key to reload your cannon.

Let's find out which of these maps are the most entertaining, fun to play and BALANCED!!

There are currently 8 HOT OREL Maps (that I'm aware of) circulating;

RO-Orel-88v76
RO-Orel-88-vs76_V1.rom (fixed up very nicely)
RO-Orel_Enhanced-V1.rom
RO-Orel_Enhanced-V2.rom
RO-Orel_Heavytanks.rom (So You wanted BIG Tanks in Orel)
RO-Orel_Gentlemen_B3.rom (Great added objectives & Scenery)
RO-Road_to_Orel_MCP1.rom (Slashbot's latest version)
RO-Orel_beta1We will have a Battle of the MAPS weekend beginning today, it will be an entertaining testing period for all of you to play these maps and tell us which one(s) you want to see STAY in rotation. Of course, a few favorite maps are interspersed for variety.

This is an opportunity for you to decide.. Play the maps, then come back to this thread and tell us which of the maps should stay in rotation.

I'm doing this because we have seen so many variations of OREL and so much BS about who authored what, who has permission, which is which and what is what, who's got history and who's got measles. Now with the "software engineers" who've suddenly appeared in the RO forums yapping about everything under the sun that's WRONG with the OREL MAPS. I've decided to leave it entirely up to the users.

For those of you inclined to USE Artillery, be advised that the DEAD TURRET Bug is still not fixed. That means, if you get out of your tank to call in artillery, when you get back in your tank... the turret will not, under any circumstances reload.

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/orel_art1.png

Don't concern yourselves with the similarity in appearances of the maps or who put who's name on what... I could care less. Slashbot427 must be enjoying all the whoop-la his original concept of a large map and release of OREL, way back when, has engendered.

I personally challenge KEYSTONE to take me on in any of the above maps either in a full server or one on one... only this time ya wimp, identify yourself. (Yes folks, he came in the server with a different nickname.. I cleaned his clock anyway!) How do I know? He posted a screen shot of me in a Panther on East Heights..

Ya know, after all the BS clears, the smoke's gone and the mirrors are broken. We'll be running the OREL Map Version that has the best gameplay and is most entertaining.

Again, I'd welcome Keystone to "show me all about" his prowess in a T-34... Heinz, you too!! But then I know you like the German goodies.

The bottom line is; we will run the Version(s) of OREL that users enjoy, not the versions that horse blindered know-it-all history zealots demand. When people say "historical" (Operation Zitadelle) in this context (ie. quietus > no '85) doesn't this simply mean they don't want to include a tank that was not produced in time for the period in which the battle was set? Or, was it?

Do people know the accurate historical loadout for this engagement? (I thought this map was merely based on the operations near Orel, Belgorod, Prokorovka, Ponyri and other locations on the northern face of the Kursk Salient). Ponyri Station, sitting astride the main rail link between Kursk and Orel, was a collection and distribution point for the collective farms in the vicinity; this in turn made it a natural goal in the German's North/South pincer move.

About Operation "Zitadelle" on 5 July 1943, it took four months before the Germans felt ready, by which time they had collected 200 of the new Panther tanks (only 40 available at the beginning of the battle due to technical problems with the new type), 90 Elefant Panzerjägers and every flyable Henschel Hs 129 ground attack aircraft, as well as 270 Tiger-Is, late model Panzer Mark-IVs and even a number of captured T-34s. In total they assembled some 2,700 tanks and assault guns, 1,800 aircraft and 800,000 men. It formed one of the greatest concentrations of German fighting power ever put together. At the time of the Battle of Kursk in the summer of 1943, the T34/76 was still in use. The fighting at Kursk revealed the T-34/76 had finally met its match in the new Panther and Tiger tanks. Several T34/76 tanks were however, tested in the summer of 1943 fitted with the S-53/85mm gun. http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/orel_t34-85.png
T-34/85

In mid-1943, an improved model operated by a five men crew and armed with 85mm gun and machine gun was introduced. It was designated as T-34/85 and by the end of the war some 29,430 of these tanks were produced. More about the T34/85; The T34/85 is one of those rare weapons that have remained in service for more than half a century. First introduced in mid 1943, it has seen combat in nearly every corner of the globe and continues in use today.So you see, with or without, the distorted and embellished accounts of this huge battle that came out of "Mother Russia" in their "Great Patriotic War" accounts, (WW2) the truth remains clouded in biased details of the actual regional battles within the huge battle of Kursk.

Who can say, unequivocally, that there were no Panthers and for that matter, no IS2s at any or NONE of the above mentioned locations. I daresay I find nothing that adamantly states they were not there. Except that is, from those who think they have all the TRUE, UNBIASED FACTS. If they even exist, I know only what I was able to find. After all, I wasn't there.

Reservoir Dog
05-18-2007, 02:37 AM
Good points on the Panthers and T34/85s. Since we know they were part of the big battles at Kursh, no one can really say for certain they weren't in some skirmishes on the way there. I'm sure both armies wanted to do some live field tests before a major engagement anyway. There are so many grey areas in the history at this time that I believe mappers can and should be flexible with layouts. There was a German historian who posted on a RO thread that some of the facts listed in the WIKI (which seems alot of people use as a reference in RO) were wrong, in dispute or biased. Basically, if its a question of equipment being used, around that time, you can't make a definitive statement like "it wasn't there" unless you were there.

A couple of questions on the map selection, Orel-88vs76-Redux is the most played version out there. Is that the same as 88vs76-version 1 you have listed? If not, is there a reason to not include in poll? Sorry, I'm don't know alot about the versions and who made them but I thought the most popular would be included in a poll for the "best." Its always interesting to see why people don't think the most popular is the best of anything.

There is another version that's popular just called "orel." Is that the same as beta 1? I am assuming that beta 1 is in the name of the map on the poll so that's why I'm asking.

Just to verify, MCP1 is the version Slashbot entered into the Tripwire Map contest? I wasn't sure but I thought MCP stood for something like "Map Contest Participant," "Map Contest Pack" or something close to that.

Enhanced is getting more play time so we will see if it can reach or surpass 88vs76 and 88vs76_redux. It still has a way to go to get there. Enhanced_V2 has not been played that much at all yet.

Mike Nomad
05-18-2007, 07:35 AM
Good points on the Panthers and T34/85s. Since we know they were part of the big battles at Kursh, no one can really say for certain they weren't in some skirmishes on the way there. I'm sure both armies wanted to do some live field tests before a major engagement anyway. There are so many grey areas in the history at this time that I believe mappers can and should be flexible with layouts. There was a German historian who posted on a RO thread that some of the facts listed in the WIKI (which seems alot of people use as a reference in RO) were wrong, in dispute or biased. Basically, if its a question of equipment being used, around that time, you can't make a definitive statement like "it wasn't there" unless you were there.

I agree completely. Far too many wiki articles have been found to be "less than historically accurate". In my opinion, many of them have been done by "buffs" with vivid imaginations.

A couple of questions on the map selection, Orel-88vs76-Redux is the most played version out there. Is that the same as 88vs76-version 1 you have listed? If not, is there a reason to not include in poll? Sorry, I'm don't know alot about the versions and who made them but I thought the most popular would be included in a poll for the "best." Its always interesting to see why people don't think the most popular is the best of anything.

I beleive the first selection, RO-Orel-88v76, is the (redux) one you speak of.

There is another version that's popular just called "orel." Is that the same as beta 1? I am assuming that beta 1 is in the name of the map on the poll so that's why I'm asking.

Yes, that's the original.

Just to verify, MCP1 is the version Slashbot entered into the Tripwire Map contest? I wasn't sure but I thought MCP stood for something like "Map Contest Participant," "Map Contest Pack" or something close to that.

Correct again.

Enhanced is getting more play time so we will see if it can reach or surpass 88vs76 and 88vs76_redux. It still has a way to go to get there. Enhanced_V2 has not been played that much at all yet.

True, but I believe we are to get yet another version of enhanced.. Seems the History "Professors" have Quietus on the run... I think its time Quietus stood his ground, told them all to "hit the road" and finalized the map.

My personal preference is the Orel Gentlemen version which is a derivative of one of Quietus' earlier improvement versions that has a reasonable loadout, added objectives and other goodies.

Then the Orel Heavy Tank version is perfect for all the Russkie lovers. It has an IS2 in it. :)

It appears that Quietus has done the majority of the background work on the map as his fixes, textures, skins, meshes and other improvements are common to all the recent iterations. Orel is a great concept and map which Quietus has, by his constant diligence, reinvigorated. By doing so, he's brought Orel to an even nicer plateau. For that, I feel we owe him a hearty thanks. :wink2:

Now, if only he'd only listen to reason about history. :B

OneShot
05-18-2007, 09:56 AM
Good points on the Panthers and T34/85s. Since we know they were part of the big battles at Kursh, no one can really say for certain they weren't in some skirmishes on the way there. I'm sure both armies wanted to do some live field tests before a major engagement anyway. There are so many grey areas in the history at this time that I believe mappers can and should be flexible with layouts. There was a German historian who posted on a RO thread that some of the facts listed in the WIKI (which seems alot of people use as a reference in RO) were wrong, in dispute or biased. Basically, if its a question of equipment being used, around that time, you can't make a definitive statement like "it wasn't there" unless you were there.

From the research I have done verifying Russian equipment, particularly armor, is in fact extremely difficult to do. The Soviets did not record such data in such complete detail as the other Allies or the Axis.

Many times Soviet tanks were driven right out of the factories onto the battlefields, no unit marking or numbers!!!! For such reason to state emphatically that this particular piece of military hardware or unit was or was not available or used during a specific battle by the Soviets in all cases is a bit far fetched imo!

As far as WIKI is concerned to use this site as a source given their past history of contributors credentialing is also ridiculous imo!

Mike Nomad
05-18-2007, 11:46 AM
Don't Forget to VOTE in our informal POLL.
It expires June 01, 2007

I see FLOT scheduled a ArmoredBeasts/screenshot contest for this weekend.. They announced it today. In the RO Forums. Cool!!

Everyone run over there and take a screenshot and send it to Airborne. :)

Here, at http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/rgn_27.png we have been supporting and running Armored Beasts from day one and this weekend we are doing the OREL Maps comparison with Armored Beasts running. Which was annouced yesterday. Doesn't matter though, there's plenty of time and players for everyone.

We don't have a prize for playng but when I examine my log files and they show who had the most hours in..... I might consider sending them either a blow up doll of Keystone or a bottle of No-Doze. :d:d

=GG= Mr Moe
05-19-2007, 08:45 AM
I wish there weren't so many of these Orel maps to choose from. I haven't played them all, but as far as the map itself is concerned, those that are based closely on the original I like best.

I can't really comment on the loadout as far as individual tanks, I don't play it enough to make a qualified comment. (I am more of an infantryman myself, and the long drive is a killer unless I am sitting down at the computer to eat a sandwich or something... :p )

The latest one I played on was one of the Orel Enchanced (with the AB mutator). There were more Russian players than Germans most of the time and averaged around 18 to 20 players total, but the Germans seemed to dominate the map more despite that. I loaded up in my trusty Pz III and took off. Yes, the PzIII which some RO Forum members say is rendered pratically useless because of AB... Once I got wiped by artillery, but I did have the satisfaction of taking out two T-34s with it despite taking several hits which left me smoking and retreating at times over a gental rise in the terrain to hide in a wheat field, only to strike back after manuevering. I felt like Major Heinrich Jager in his PzIII when he was assualting the enemy landcruisers... A cookie to anyone who knows what I am talking about :d

Is this version I just played a balanced one? I don't know. Too many factors involved including the quality of players (unknown to me) for me to judge.

I will say this. It is an absolute bunch of BS for 'certain' players who think they are the reincarnation of Patton/Manstein/Rommel all rolled into one who go about spouting how great they are and only they are right because they play only when the server is full, and when someone else makes a comment about a particular experience they had, why they must be wrong because according to them, it can't possibly happen etc.... :frown:

Sorry, no vote - not enough experience...

Mike Nomad
05-19-2007, 02:07 PM
I will say this. It is an absolute bunch of BS for 'certain' players who think they are the reincarnation of Patton/Manstein/Rommel all rolled into one who go about spouting how great they are and only they are right because they play only when the server is full, and when someone else makes a comment about a particular experience they had, why they must be wrong because according to them, it can't possibly happen etc.... :frown:

Sorry, no vote - not enough experience...

Moe, you are a classy guy. I've always liked you for your candor. So in essence, your vote is "none of the above".... a no vote?

Sad to say, the authority that has spewed forth all sorts of garbage ranging from history to balance and back again has turned me off completely with the Enhanced Versions... and versions and versions. There has been more changes of loadouts for those maps than costumes for a Broadway Show. That alone tells me that somebody is angling for bias and the best way to intro that bias is to intro confusion.

Quietus might be the nicest guy in the world and probably is.... but he's apparently been mesmerized by Keystone.. as Keystone has portrayed himself as the OREL God. As such.. I'm now burned out on the BS from him. They can do it their way and live with it. They forget that its not me or any admin who ultimately decides, its the players. If the Germans or the Russians are put on the short end of the stick. People will simply not play the map.

That's what has me turned off on the enhanced versions.

TruSlaughter
05-20-2007, 07:34 AM
i'm just about burned out on orel period. i spent so much time driving yesterday i could've driven all the way to mike's house :d of all the versions made not one of them fixed the floating trees and wheat. All the talk about loadouts is useless if the map is not visually appealling

Mike Nomad
05-20-2007, 07:46 AM
i'm just about burned out on orel period. i spent so much time driving yesterday i could've driven all the way to mike's house :d of all the versions made not one of them fixed the floating trees and wheat. All the talk about loadouts is useless if the map is not visually appealling


You said a mouthful there......

=GG= Mr Moe
05-20-2007, 10:28 AM
Well, I have noticed a few of the visual anomolies such as the floating trees, it would be nice to see them fixed, but it is not a game breaker.

The drive is always the killer. Funny how you can point your panzer towards a bridge when coming out of the spawn, then leave your computer for a good while and come back and you are still not even at the river. I played twice 'semi-briefly' on the German side where we won, and despite helping cap two objectives, not once did I even see a Russian tank. That was more than 20 minutes of just driving around the map. On the last objective, I was even tempted to leave the zone just so the map round would continue and maybe I could get a shot in....

-----------------

Nah Mike, I haven't voted yet but hope to do so before your poll ends. Just want to play them some more....

Mike Nomad
05-20-2007, 10:49 AM
Cool!! Thanx for helping us out Moe.