Mike Nomad
04-27-2007, 07:08 AM
From: FlashPanHunter;
...and Gorlitz Beta 3 is set.
Changes:
Additional spawns zones for soviets to get them closer to objectives
Shifted soviet spawns in two places to ease the attack
Gave smokies to the soviet commander
Lowered reinforcement levels for both teams
Added a su76 to spawn at each tank area
Some map optimization (Didn't really seem to work though :()
Some changes to cover in the streetsI decided to leave off on any major class changes, mainly to see exactly how the smoke grenades would affect things. I'm still pretty skeptical about them, and if they don't work well, I'm prepared to remove them and help the Russians instead by lowering the german availability of stgs and semi autos.
The next beta will be much more thourough in addressing the map's problems, I released this one at this point because of the positive reaction and the popularity of the previous versions, I didn't want to leave the game play as it was while spending lots of time on larger fixes and new art.
DOWNLOAD (http://www.maporchestra.com/plugins/p13_download_manager/getfile.php?categoryid=10&p13_sectionid=23&p13_fileid=314&p13_versionid=500)
__________________
Oi!Oi!Oi! said it the best and it fits the aggro about this map to a tee!
"It looks great, but I think it's way too restrictive. All the streets and buildings are blocked and the russians are forced to follow a narrow, single/twin track to each objectives. It gets boring fast in my opinion. There should be more alternative routes."
I've often wondered what it was that aggravated me to no end when we played this map... Now, I know. :wink2:
Its sad when a mapper apparently refuses to listen to the players when they ask for fixes, adjustments and/or optimization.. Beta3 addressed none of the serious basic problems found in the map.
Hopefully, Flashpanhunter, (A TWI member), will follow the heritage of TWI and begin to listen to and truly evaluate the items pointed out by players....
I wont lie, this map is built for a full server. There are only so many tools that I have as a mapper, and providing class availability by proportion is not one of them. As a result, I try to optimize gameplay, class avalibility, etc for 16 v 16, which may not be the best conceivable scenario, but I believe it is the best possible one.
Regarding adding german vehicles, I'm not sure if people advocating this have really thought it out, but for the german vehicles to move at all, it would require either that the germans destroy their own barricades or that the barricades be removed from the map. Neither of these really works.
If its going to demand a full server than I, as an Admin will be forced to take it OUT of rotation. Which is something I do not care to do as I love the map but detest the complaints about playability. Even worse are the demands being made by experienced players wanting better playability - "who should have this and who should have that" and best of all, "why can't I fit through doorways and holes in the walls?"
I fear that your "full server only" design is overly ambitious in that few servers, very few, are full most of the time. It certainly is not conducive to garning the support of serious Admins in the RO community. Bots are also out of the question.
I'm not so sure of that, if the Tanks were capable of destroying the barricades, fine.... end of problem... also, The German Tank(s) could easily defend deeply into the map without having to resort to barricade destruction all. (Truth) We played (toyed) with the map for the better part of today.. I am not asking out of imagination or fantasy... we worked the areas and discussed the possibilities and potentials.
I cannot tell you enough that you have the workings of a great map here... just make the map enjoyable for all levels of servers... Admins and players.
airborne']We have beta 2 still going on our server, and I must say the map has high potential! I would add in comments coming from players on our server, and ourselves, to add the following:
1. equip all classes of soldiers a bit better with full weapons kit and grenades
2. have smoke grenades available
3. give the Germans some type of transport, if only two half tracks!
4. flesh out the buildings, as most all look alike, one thing we noticed were the "blank" signs on every building
5. tune down the tank ambient sound, but leave it ingame
6.finally, change the US marked universal carrier to Russian markings.....:D
Overall, a he** of a map so far......
The next item to address is the obstacle ridden doorways, curbs and corners... seems every door way is too short.... you must crouch or crawl to get through them.. in the beginning of the map, you can crawl thru a basement window and view the bottom of the map.
Don't get me wrong.... I think this map is terrific - it needs TLC polishing that's all.
Also, a StuG wouldn't be a bad thing... the map seems to be biased toward the Allies. Where's the grenades for all the German & Allied classes?? The Allied sappers can and do use the satchels in lieu of grenades... Panzerfausts are useless in close combat.
This map shows a great deal of promise, but its needs to be carefully balanced. Let the player skills decide the outcome of the battles, not the map. Especially if its to be the great map its seems destined to become.
Don't forget all the doorways and holes in the walls you cannot get through unless you either crouch or go prone and crawl....:)
Oh and one bug I almost forgot:
There is an area where you get stuck.
From the russian spawn at the 88s square head left and trough the ruins and the rubble. On the left you can get up on the rubble piles and overlook the alley leading to the trainyard, on the most northwestern edge there a a small hole where you get stuck.
Since some of the above quotes go back to the end of FEB. 2007 and have yet to be addressed, I fear Gorlitz may join many of the other, "almost made the grade", custom maps in the wild. Its sad because Gorlitz is such a good looking map. The map itself, its static meshes, brushes and compile need work and optimization... it has yet to happen. Not to mention the playability, balance and entertainment factors need serious help if the server is NOT full.
Making a map strictly for FULL Servers is fine... when there are enough players to go around. :confused:
...and Gorlitz Beta 3 is set.
Changes:
Additional spawns zones for soviets to get them closer to objectives
Shifted soviet spawns in two places to ease the attack
Gave smokies to the soviet commander
Lowered reinforcement levels for both teams
Added a su76 to spawn at each tank area
Some map optimization (Didn't really seem to work though :()
Some changes to cover in the streetsI decided to leave off on any major class changes, mainly to see exactly how the smoke grenades would affect things. I'm still pretty skeptical about them, and if they don't work well, I'm prepared to remove them and help the Russians instead by lowering the german availability of stgs and semi autos.
The next beta will be much more thourough in addressing the map's problems, I released this one at this point because of the positive reaction and the popularity of the previous versions, I didn't want to leave the game play as it was while spending lots of time on larger fixes and new art.
DOWNLOAD (http://www.maporchestra.com/plugins/p13_download_manager/getfile.php?categoryid=10&p13_sectionid=23&p13_fileid=314&p13_versionid=500)
__________________
Oi!Oi!Oi! said it the best and it fits the aggro about this map to a tee!
"It looks great, but I think it's way too restrictive. All the streets and buildings are blocked and the russians are forced to follow a narrow, single/twin track to each objectives. It gets boring fast in my opinion. There should be more alternative routes."
I've often wondered what it was that aggravated me to no end when we played this map... Now, I know. :wink2:
Its sad when a mapper apparently refuses to listen to the players when they ask for fixes, adjustments and/or optimization.. Beta3 addressed none of the serious basic problems found in the map.
Hopefully, Flashpanhunter, (A TWI member), will follow the heritage of TWI and begin to listen to and truly evaluate the items pointed out by players....
I wont lie, this map is built for a full server. There are only so many tools that I have as a mapper, and providing class availability by proportion is not one of them. As a result, I try to optimize gameplay, class avalibility, etc for 16 v 16, which may not be the best conceivable scenario, but I believe it is the best possible one.
Regarding adding german vehicles, I'm not sure if people advocating this have really thought it out, but for the german vehicles to move at all, it would require either that the germans destroy their own barricades or that the barricades be removed from the map. Neither of these really works.
If its going to demand a full server than I, as an Admin will be forced to take it OUT of rotation. Which is something I do not care to do as I love the map but detest the complaints about playability. Even worse are the demands being made by experienced players wanting better playability - "who should have this and who should have that" and best of all, "why can't I fit through doorways and holes in the walls?"
I fear that your "full server only" design is overly ambitious in that few servers, very few, are full most of the time. It certainly is not conducive to garning the support of serious Admins in the RO community. Bots are also out of the question.
I'm not so sure of that, if the Tanks were capable of destroying the barricades, fine.... end of problem... also, The German Tank(s) could easily defend deeply into the map without having to resort to barricade destruction all. (Truth) We played (toyed) with the map for the better part of today.. I am not asking out of imagination or fantasy... we worked the areas and discussed the possibilities and potentials.
I cannot tell you enough that you have the workings of a great map here... just make the map enjoyable for all levels of servers... Admins and players.
airborne']We have beta 2 still going on our server, and I must say the map has high potential! I would add in comments coming from players on our server, and ourselves, to add the following:
1. equip all classes of soldiers a bit better with full weapons kit and grenades
2. have smoke grenades available
3. give the Germans some type of transport, if only two half tracks!
4. flesh out the buildings, as most all look alike, one thing we noticed were the "blank" signs on every building
5. tune down the tank ambient sound, but leave it ingame
6.finally, change the US marked universal carrier to Russian markings.....:D
Overall, a he** of a map so far......
The next item to address is the obstacle ridden doorways, curbs and corners... seems every door way is too short.... you must crouch or crawl to get through them.. in the beginning of the map, you can crawl thru a basement window and view the bottom of the map.
Don't get me wrong.... I think this map is terrific - it needs TLC polishing that's all.
Also, a StuG wouldn't be a bad thing... the map seems to be biased toward the Allies. Where's the grenades for all the German & Allied classes?? The Allied sappers can and do use the satchels in lieu of grenades... Panzerfausts are useless in close combat.
This map shows a great deal of promise, but its needs to be carefully balanced. Let the player skills decide the outcome of the battles, not the map. Especially if its to be the great map its seems destined to become.
Don't forget all the doorways and holes in the walls you cannot get through unless you either crouch or go prone and crawl....:)
Oh and one bug I almost forgot:
There is an area where you get stuck.
From the russian spawn at the 88s square head left and trough the ruins and the rubble. On the left you can get up on the rubble piles and overlook the alley leading to the trainyard, on the most northwestern edge there a a small hole where you get stuck.
Since some of the above quotes go back to the end of FEB. 2007 and have yet to be addressed, I fear Gorlitz may join many of the other, "almost made the grade", custom maps in the wild. Its sad because Gorlitz is such a good looking map. The map itself, its static meshes, brushes and compile need work and optimization... it has yet to happen. Not to mention the playability, balance and entertainment factors need serious help if the server is NOT full.
Making a map strictly for FULL Servers is fine... when there are enough players to go around. :confused: