RO-Hubes_Breakout

[Mike Nomad]

From: ViViD;

Download Link: Download Here (http://www.mediafire.com/?54mztdzn0mq)


You need
AHZ Guns installed on the server or tractorwork already installed. AB 2.03 or later Installed on the server, the mutator does not need to be active just the files installed in the various folders.

Hubes Pocket
It is April 1944,the entire 1st Panzer Army is encircled in a pocket centred around the town of Kamenets-Podolsky.

Whilst the encircled forces have two weeks of food and ammunition,fuel is very low. The only choice now is to make a breakout.

Marshal Zhukov assuming the breakout is coming from the south strips units from the encirclment to counter this, but Hubes 200,000 strong 1st Panzer is heading Northwest to link up with Paul Hausser's II SS and to help the Hungarian VII Corps.

Regardless of Hubes' bluff,the Germans will still be facing strong allied forces in adhoc defensive positions. The Annihilation of the First Panzer Army will result in a collapse of the entire South-Eastern Front,so this breakout has to succeed!

------------------------

The Germans would be wise to take the mortar positions,to avoid withering artillery and AT fire on their attack on the pillbox.

The Russians must halt the German retreat using any means possible. Numerous AT gun positions are located around the vicinity of the attack and are to be used tactically. The Mortar position is to be held as this is the Russian's only means of any artillery support, as it will be for the Germans also.

For the Germans this battle will determine the fate of the entire south-eastern front, and the Russians know this all too well.

Its raining, muddy and going to be a miserable day for both sides.

LOAD OUTS - German

2 PIVH's (Unlimited)
2-3 Halftracks depending on spawn (Unlimited)
2 Tank Commanders
2 Crewman
1 Squad Leaders
4 Assault SMG with Satchels
2 MG Gunners
1 SemiAuto Rifleman
Unlimited RiflemanRussian

1 T-34/76 or 85 depends on spawn (Unlimited)
2-3 Carriers depends on spawn (Unlimited)
1 TC
1 Crew
1 Squad Leader
Unlimited Assault SMG
3 Gunners
6 Rifleman
2 Semi Automatic Rifleman
2 Combat Engineers with satchels
Numerous 1937 AT Guns Random and permanent.
300 men each side, 40 minute battle


http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hubes02.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hubes05.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hubes03.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hubes01.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hubes04.jpg


Authors:

[3rd] ViViD - [3rd] Luther - [3rd] Doc HoliWood

Special Mentions
Amizaur for intergrating his Armoured Beasts Mod into the map
AHZ crew for releasing the AT Guns to the Public.

Too come ....
We have been provided from Welt a new awesome Halftrack Camo Skin and will intergrate this into the next Beta.

Would love your feedback guys on any improvements you may think would improve gameplay or your viewing experience.

Enjoy

[Mike Nomad]

This map needs work and re-evaluation of the loadouts....

Optimization is this first order of the day, it lags at the bunker, at the trenches and up on the mortar site near the ammo, if one tries to climb out of the trench to go get some ammo, ya get stuck.

Next there simply is not enough tanks for the size of this map..... We had 10 or so players in the map and half the guys were twiddling their thumbs waiting for a tank... That's sad. I don't know where the thinking for load-outs for these new maps is coming from... but it ought to be sent back garnished with a few lilies.

If you're gonna make a BIG MAP - equip the poor thing. :p

If the intention was to gradually shift the map's focus to an infantry only combat scene... it works. This is not a combined arms map by any stretch of the imagination. It seems to be an Infantry Only Map with a hint at Armor.. a very slight hint designed to provide a few targets for the multitudinous AT guns...:p

When the map ends you get dumped "under the map"...

Back to the drawing boards guys..... :)

[Mike Nomad]

Luther, apparently a Co-Author of this map got "bent out of shape" and blasted my critique....

Not to sure what you mean Nomad, last night on the full 32 slot Australian server we were having a ball of a time. It is a very large map, enough for 3 tanks. Tankers twiddling there thumbs? Maybe team tanking is in order but I wouldn't like to say that idea out loud. Of course last night one tanker made a stance to solo tank, he did so and paid dearly when he was out gunned by an AT gun and T34.

On the assault of the bunker it was quite intense as the Ruskies needed that T-34 and the Germans need full cooperation with both tankers and half tracks. Allies were just hanging on when both German tankers worked together, and to add more tanks is out of the question, though a Panzer 3 maybe be given to the Germans in at a later stage.

What I did find is that it is a map people need to play twice to get a clear understanding on what to do. Like when we played it for the first time people had no idea what the heck was going on, but like last night, which Hubes got voted in 4 times, we had intense fights at the Bunker and the Farmhouse.

The only negative feedback I did gauge out of the Australian public was that it may be a tad to bright for an over cast day, so we may change that at a later stage to.

Of course with new map concepts people will either hate them or love them, as with keeping in touch with Vivids and my ideas about conflict, its not all gun hoe and rack up the points but a more relaxed feel to it. This can be seen in our hand crafted maps for our campaign.

This map requires team play, so would play out well in realism or clan based server. At one stage you could have a solid defence of the railroad, then 'BANG' you have been overrun by a concentration of German forces. In saying that we have not been biased to either side, and the load outs are realistic at the time frame. Such as Narva, one side will win most of the battles in the early days, then the other will get there act together and promise a great fight.

So, I responded;

OK my friend, then leave the lag in, the holes in the map in, etc..... We will learn to deal with these new, innovative handicaps. One would assume that after having played the map for close to 3 hours yesterday morning, we would have "learned" something. Team Tanking? That is the JOKE of the DAY!! TEAM TANKING with THREE TANKS and 32 players? What planet were you playing on? Why must everything be an argument instead of an intelligent exchange of useful information!

Do you really believe that by blindly defending the map by yapping about a "FULL SERVER" and "we saw none of that" or pointing out how poor our players may have been solves the problems we saw players from three continents encountering in our server? We also saw the other versions of the map with the AT GUN inside the bunker running in the server "down under". I fear you may have assumed too much and understood too little.

Instead of attempting to blow off what was said, its a far better thing to understand what was said and why. Those items pointed out were not meant to disparage. They were meant to offer only good info to assist ViViD in getting the map right. But if you feel that a direct and to the point critique is not useful and is offensive, then I'll refrain from being truthful in the future and simply proclaim that every new map is wunnerful... just wunnerful. GAWD!

[Mike Nomad]

Then ViViD, one of the good guys, responded....

My first map Kuzernki has a temporary spawn and considering it was one of the first uses in the map out there of it I think I could reconstruct it.

One thing I felt the church spawn does was make the axis push forward down the road thinking wise, not start thinking of how they can exploit out of the sides or along minefields when they rush out.

One thing I found with kuzernki, is by having a timed spawn is nice but it doesn't give the russian a sense of why they are now spawning back really far away. I think a cap does that. The other thing I never look at scores, do people still care about that?

These are just my opinions and perhaps different then yours, this does not mean your right and I am wrong or your wrong and I am right. I believe I am technically component enough to do what I have already done in the past if the community feel this is more advantagous to have it a timed spawn way.

I appreciate your feed back on the trenches and do have a few notes on the some of the flaws in stairs leading out, will fix B2 and please keep them coming.

I must say people machines must be poor compared to the one australians have or perhaps the servers we use are better as I personally have seen no lag or had many complaints when installed on our server but it be something that I will work on to improve for you in version 2.

I have a AMD 3500+ with 7800GTX card no means a super computer with what is available these days.

More tanks hmmm I like to know what the community thinks is they want, I could play an extra tank either side, but these maps are made for team tanking and team work, and as you know Mike I make no apologies for that hehehe, but if I can see the value in an extra tank either side that can be achieve. Although it concerns me on the lack of infantry then. If we had 64 servers now that would be fantastic hehehe and I add heaps more tanks. :)

No worries Mike, I think luthers like more infantry and less tanks and your a tanker at heart. Just differing opinions hehe I am sure after its played a bit we find the right balance it is B1 guys.

Would love to know where the holes in the map are (are you talking tears or gameplay) Just point them out I will take everything you guys have onboard I am thinking I now got a thicker skin after the first drumming I recieved many moons ago <smile>

To which I responded...

I must say people machines must be poor compared to the one australians have or perhaps the servers we use are better as I personally have seen no lag or had many complaints when installed on our server but it be something that I will work on to improve for you in version 2.

I have a AMD 3500+ with 7800GTX card no means a super computer with what is available these days.

Each RGN RO Server has its OWN machine (Note the IP addresses and ports) Each machine is an Intel Core DUO 3Ghz machine/1066FSB with 2GB DDR2 533 RAM, 400 GB SATA2 WD HDD w/16mb cache, Antec Tru 550w PS... Hardly machines to frown upon..\\ The player machines we have here (4) are the same but are equipped with SLI nVidia 7900 cards by MSI on MSI motherboards.

More tanks hmmm I like to know what the community thinks is they want, I could play an extra tank either side, but these maps are made for team tanking and team work, and as you know Mike I make no apologies for that hehehe, but if I can see the value in an extra tank either side that can be achieve. Although it concerns me on the lack of infantry then. If we had 64 servers now that would be fantastic hehehe and I add heaps more tanks <smile>

True, that's your call and you have every right but to see Luther hollering about "Team Tanking" on a FULL 32 player server.... in map with only three tanks will leave more than a few tankers "twiddling their thumbs". I pointed this factoid out along with the anomolies in the map, (laggy spots & holes) only to be blown off. That's is no way to conduct a beta. As I said, henceforth, it'll only be "happy - happy - joy - joy". There is no point in illustrating problems found, if its going generate sarcastic criticism of our players and servers and cause arguments.

In the future, I'll keep my critiques, comments and opinions to our forum.

Luther has to learn there is much more to TEAM TANKING than 32 - 50 players and only THREE (3) Tanks!! :confused:

[Mike Nomad]

Hmmm they say a picture is worth a thousand words.. :)

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes01.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes02.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes03.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes04.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes05.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes06.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes08.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes09.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes10.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes11.png

http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/images/screenshots/hubes12.png

When the map ends.... players drop thru the map.

I can't imagine what the "pins" are... perhaps, the handle to "Excalibur"?? :)

"...is your objective tanks with infantry or infantry with tanks?" Great question... it should be asked of every mapper.

Strange though, I wonder if Eisenhower, Patton, Guderian or any other Military leaders and strategists ever asked that... Its kind of pointless unless a mapper IS trying to force the map to be played HIS way instead of realistically.

Reduce the number of tankers?? hahahah Hell that's easy... there's only (3) Tanks in the map.. ( 1 T34 and 2 PZ4s)even if the spawns overlap the loadout.

Take the apparent 2 big, bad German "token target tanks" for the AT guns out... because that's what it appears as... an afterthought to give the AT guns generously dispersed all over the map a reason for being there. Especially if its intended to be an infantry only map and the AT Guns and few tanks were placed in the map for whatevers... :eek:

I realize this is beta 1 so I showed as much of the disagreeable side of the map as possible... I could've easily been a "wowie-zowie" and said its a great map... that's an outrageous disservice to the mapper(s). Hubes_Breakout is not complete nor is it great. It can be with honest critiques and a bit more attention and planning. Right now the map simply put, needs work. :wink2:

[TruSlaughter]

geez Mike, it seems you have the ability to piss off people of any continent :d :d knowing you mike, i totally understand where you are coming from (constructive criticism) what i don't understand are mappers that put out a map and then get all defensive when problems are pointed out. perhaps they just don't want to put out a great map just a map that languishes in the beta stages then never gets played. my Ro maps folder is getting quite large with quite a few beta maps that never saw a final stage. P.S. maybe the Pins are seats for asshats lol

[Mike Nomad]

Hahahhah seat for asshats!!! Good One!! :wink1:



ViViD is one of the good guys... I've tested his maps from day one... its one of his helpers, Luther, that got all mouthy, not ViViD.

Perhaps he just young..... :rolleyes:

[TruSlaughter]

Hahahhah seat for asshats!!! Good One!! :wink1:



ViViD is one of the good guys... I've tested his maps from day one... its one of his helpers, Luther, that got all mouthy not ViViD. Perhaps he just young..... :rolleyes: i realize that

[Mike Nomad]

Now, to see if they're genuinely interested... if they are,, they'll look at the screenshots... and perhaps comment.

[Jackboots]

I believe those pins are entenching tools

[Mike Nomad]

I believe those pins are entenching tools



Ya know, they could be the folding shovels.

http://www.atthefront.com/usgear_foldshovelWW2.jpg

I'm not so sure though. I still have one of those. Mine is a dark scruffy green.

[Mike Nomad]

Human nature is amazing....


I mentioned the wowie-zowie reports... and waddaya know?? Yep one is there now by a guy proclaiming this map is great!!

Like the man says.... it takes all kinds... I only hope that the broadcasters of misleading info realize one day.. they're making sure the mediocre maps stay in abundance.

I am thankful ViViD is part of the crew who made this map as he will make sure its done right. I know he takes pride in his efforts and results.

ps; Luther admitted its an Infantry Only map with a tank or two as an afterthought;

Our main goal is an infantry attack with some Tank support. Later down the track and people wish for more tanks we could adopt what Vivid did with Narva and Muddy Tigers. Regards Luther

Unbelievable, why'd he dish out all the blathering doubletalk when I brought up the tank subject the first time? Why the smokescreen?

You can bet I'll not be posting true opinions in the RO forums very often. There's simply too many youngsters there nowadays with big mouths and small brains for me. There was a time when you could discuss things there intelligently. Now, if they don't agree with you, they would rather be unreasonable and start an argument instead of discussing all the facts. :eek:

[OneShot]

I for one played the map for a long time yesterday, and I believe it needs work. The potential is there, especially based on the mappers previous releases (I think Muddy Tigers is an excellent combined arms map) but it definitely needs some more work imo. The potential for a real quality map exists, just needs some tweaking, which is in fact the reason you release a Beta correct? Why would you release Betas of a map if you honestly do not want constructive criticism from experienced gamers or wish to know what if any bugs or glitches are found by the players. If that is then the case why not just load it on a private, password only server, perhaps the one in Australia would be a good option for them? :rolleyes:

I agree with you Mike, I just feel it is best to keep your opinions to yourself and let them sort it out for themselves. I know very little about mapping/modding but I think the need for optimization should be obvious on this map, and what is up with the background, everything is washed out, I guess this is there opinion of the"fog of war?" But as you said Mike why even bother any more? :whaa1:

As far as a infantry dominate map, why did the two German tanks lead the assault exclusively, out running the infantry even in their half tracks? The armor were capping well in advance of the rest, and as a Russian sapper I found myself trying to chase down the tanks the entire game. I very rarely caught up to them also. And when I did catch them I could not even flank the tanks without getting blown up by the minefields. I could see the objective or cap area, and the armor, so I was not wondering all over the map, but unless you attacked almost frontally, you got blown up with little or no warning! :mad: I personally do not enjoy maps when they limit your paths, but I guess they have their reasons, who am I to say.

The days of full servers are few and far between, imo for a map to be successful it should play as well with 8 to 10 players as it does with 28 to 32. A good example of this I believe is Muddy Tigers!:wink1:

[Mike Nomad]

Just a point of information.... Muddy Tigers is also by ViViD... He does good work... but I am at a loss to explain Luther's aggressive reaction to the truth. Unless of course, if he's young and inexperienced. Then he has an excuse.

[OneShot]

Just a point of information.... Muddy Tigers is also by ViViD... He does good work... but I am at a loss to explain Luther's aggressive reaction to the truth. Unless of course, if he's young and inexperienced. Then he has an excuse.

Yes I know, that is why I used Muddy Tigers as an example! Clearly he has demonstrated by his past works his ability to create a fun, exciting map, no reason to believe that this his latest compilation will be any less. The map has definite potential, just needs a little work, think we agree on that point. From ViViD's posts I believe that he does in fact welcome all constructive criticisms and has acknowledge the fact that you were not trying to flame his map, only trying to voice your opinion, from play experience, and your observations in hopes of making his work the better. Sorry Mike, but youth nor experience is no excuse imo for the other Guy's attitude when you are releasing a Beta 1 of a new map! :mad: That we disagree on my friend.:wink2:

[ViViD]

Hey guys,

Don't mind luther, he really is a nice guy, it his first hand in a map and it takes a little getting used to the whole constructive critism, also mike you can come across a bit harsh <smile> thats ok I know your style now, just takes a bit to get used first up, mate.

Thanks for your screenies will fix those floating grass issues, and stairs and stuck.

You are correct the pin are shovels <smile>

I am working on the optimisation especially around the trenches I put a post online, which you will see, I deleted everything bar the terrain and buildings and gave me a whooping 10 extra FPS, not much. Since B1 I have managed 4 extra FPS with everything in but not a heap I can do here guys.

I am hoping that 4 fps on my machine helps those on 10fps a great deal.

The AHZ Guns are something I can take neither credit for, or fix as they are not my work so satchels issues with them can only be hoped to be fixed with berezina and other stuff.

---------------------------------------

The good news I am adding a PIII for the axis in each spawn and T-60 or T34/76 dependent on spawn for the allies.

Also 3 HT's instead of 2 in most spawn places.

I tried with more tanks in a closed server but it really suffered in the lack of infantry on the ground especially in infantry dominated area like the trenches and houses. You can either trust me on that one or request a RGN version with more tanks, if wego that way it cannot be given out and used only on a rgn server, a win win both ways <smile>.

PS. also worked on the washed out background it now blends a lot better. As for fighting frontally being a breakthrough map what your trying to do is smash through and create a hole, you could really flank in real life as there is a long line of troops either side of this valley your smashing through, so flanking is pretty much out of the option. The minefields extend pretty much either side of the valley and some spawn area, also people love to exploit and capture the next objective before capturing the one your suppose to, I made sure that this is not possible. All mines are set for 25 secs with 5 warnings.

Optimisation is not obvious on big maps I am pushing the engine to its limits with trees, objects and terrain. Berezina is not a good example to site on optimisation because the ridgelines and map is perfectly cut into segments with hills which give you segmented battlescapes each area also there is very little trees and terrrain objects he makes up with this with zone houses. It is far from pushing the engine and very different concept to a true terrain landscape.

Also I think there is issues with RO and certain cards perhaps it with emitters or something else but so far 80% of surveyed is getting correct FPS around the trenches of 45-60 FPS and 20% are getting real trouble.

[[3rd]Luther]

I can except constructive criticism, but the way I respond may be to upfront for some, open to interpretation I guess though I did re read my post twice to see if any harm could come out of it. In regards to Hubes Doc did the Church, I did the terrain and Vivid did the messy stuff.

Luther

[Mike Nomad]

Not to worry, its all water under the bridge.... as long as the map's a success. :wink2: